Thank you poet Nguyen Khoa Diem for accepting the invitation to talk with Dan Viet on the occasion of your return to Hanoi. How is your life now?
- I returned to the house I used to live in, and spent my old age with her (poet Nguyen Khoa Diem's wife - PV). Like many other houses in Hue, the garden is quite large, I spend time reading books, taking care of flowers and pruning trees. Occasionally, my wife and I go to Hanoi to visit our children and meet friends. Life goes on normally like that...
In 2006, when preparing to retire, he wrote the poem "Now is the time", which included the following lines: "Now is the time to say goodbye to landline phones, video cards, microphones / Freedom to go online with life, eat and sleep with the dust of the road/ Alone with a backpack and a bicycle/ Now the wind calls me to go". It seems that retirement makes him very happy and comfortable, not sad and bored like many others?
- Yes, I am very happy, I feel younger and healthier. Retirement means escaping from busy work, escaping from the rules, I return to myself.
When I was in office, I was reserved in my speech and laughter, afraid that it was not the right time. As a politician, I had to be careful, moderate, and dress neatly. Now that I have been able to get rid of that kind of formality, for me there is nothing better than that.
Many people say: Mr. Nguyen Khoa Diem is the Head of the Propaganda Department who left his post the cleanest, the day before he decided to retire, the next day he packed his bags and was ready to return to Hue...
- I still remember after the day of handing over the job, June 2006, I went to greet General Secretary Nong Duc Manh. When I said: "I greet you, I'm going back to Hue", he was very surprised: "Oh, you've already returned to Hue?". At that time, the General Secretary as well as everyone else was very surprised because they didn't think I would leave Hanoi so soon.
After a proud career, returning to his hometown to spend his old age, right in his old house – surely that is a happiness that not everyone can have. However, did leaving an important position in politics not leave him with certain disappointments?
- Normally, I am a person who likes a simple lifestyle, without any pretense, so when I returned to normal, I did not feel sudden, but rather happy. In Hue, when my wife was still in Hanoi, I often went to Dong Ba market, visited friends, bought this and that for the garden. Once, I rode my bicycle, wearing a pith helmet, and went out, thinking it was convenient to visit friends at the Thua Thien - Hue Provincial Party Committee. When I got there, I met a young policeman. He asked: "Do you have any papers?", I replied: "I don't have any". Hearing that, he immediately said: "You just stand here, you can't go in".
Thinking that I couldn't come in since I was here, I had to choose my words carefully: "Please tell the guys that Mr. Diem wants to visit the propaganda department." He told me to wait, then hurriedly ran in to report. A moment later, the guys inside looked out, saw me, and quickly invited me in. I also considered it a happy event, not feeling any annoyance or trouble.
When was the house you are living in in Hue built?
- That is the house my grandmother - Dam Phuong, a female historian, bought for my father and his family around 1940 when he was arrested and exiled by the French. The resistance war against the French broke out in 1946, my father went to fight, half of the family and my grandmother evacuated to Thanh Nghe. My mother was pregnant with my younger brother so she stayed behind. My mother was the second grandmother, originally from the countryside, gave birth to three children, I was the eldest son. I studied in the North then returned to my hometown to join the resistance war, when the war ended I returned to live with my mother, got married, and raised children in this house with a garden.
Poet Nguyen Khoa Diem is a descendant of the Nguyen Khoa family – a large family in Hue, with many officials. As a child, he must have received a very strict education?
- In 1558, Duke Doan Nguyen Hoang (1525 - 1613) made the first southern expansion from the North to Thuan Quang area. In the group of people who followed Nguyen Hoang that year, there was Nguyen Dinh Than, a native of Tram Bac (Hai Duong), who was adopted as a son at the age of 6. He was my ancestor of the Nguyen Khoa lineage. In the third generation, the descendants changed Nguyen Dinh to Nguyen Khoa, until I was the 12th generation. Although we were far from home, every year we still returned to Tram Bac (now in Hai Phong) to burn incense at the Ancestor's Tomb.
I was born in Uu Diem village, about 40 kilometers from Hue city. At that time, the French colonialists brought many former political prisoners here for resettlement, including my father and mother. A few years later, my parents got married and I was born in 1943. That's why my grandmother named me Nguyen Khoa An Diem (An means resettlement, Diem means Uu Diem village). In 1955, when I went to the North to study at a school for students from the South, I saw that no one had a four-word name, so I foolishly dropped the word An and just called myself Nguyen Khoa Diem.
During my childhood, like other students in Hue, my teacher was both kind and very strict. Twice I was hit with a ruler on my hand. When I was eleven or twelve years old, my mother made me a black silk shirt so I could go to ancestral shrines and temples. She always reminded me to walk and speak properly as a child of a well-educated family.
Born into a family of noble origin in Hue (his grandmother was Dam Phuong nu su, granddaughter of King Minh Mang), what did he inherit?
- I don't remember my grandmother's face because I was too young. When I was four years old, she passed away during the evacuation season. According to everyone, she was fluent in Chinese and French, had extensive cultural knowledge, was talented in writing and journalism, and founded the Women's Worker's Association. She was very devoted to Buddhism. However, during the colonial period, she also suffered a lot. The French colonialists also imprisoned her for several months.
For me, she always left in my mind the image of a Bodhisattva, both familiar and sacred.
So what about your father - journalist Hai Trieu, does he still have many memories?
- I didn't live with my father much, because he was always active during my childhood, and when I was eleven years old, he passed away in Thanh Hoa. What he passed on to me were his ambitions about ideals and art that he pursued throughout his life. Relatives in the family always told me: "Your father used to be a writer and journalist, our family has a tradition of literature, you must follow the example of your predecessors."
Your Nguyen Khoa family also has a well-known person, Mr. Nguyen Khoa Nam - Commander of the 4th Tactical Zone of the Saigon army, who committed suicide on April 30, 1975 after losing the battle. What is your blood relationship with Mr. Khoa Nam?
- My great-grandfather Nguyen Khoa Luan gave birth to 9 children, of which his grandfather Nguyen Khoa Nam and my grandfather were brothers. Although they were cousins, Mr. Nam was 16 years older than me and we had never met. It was not until after the country was reunified that I heard his name. Previously, Mr. Nguyen Khoa Nam's ashes were placed in Ho Chi Minh City, but recently his relatives brought him to the family cemetery in Hue.
When he was alive, we were on opposite sides of the battle line, but when he passed away, everything became the past. I still go to burn incense for him when I have the chance.
"Country" - a chapter in the epic poem "The Road of Desire" he composed at the age of 28 has left a deep impression in the memories of many generations of readers. At the age of less than 30, he wrote verses that were both new and profound, full of philosophy: " There are so many sons and daughters/ In four thousand generations of people of the same age as us/ They lived and died/ Simply and calmly/ No one remembers their faces or names/ But they created the Country " . How did he create this work?
- In December 1971, the Propaganda Department of the Tri Thien Regional Party Committee summoned us to attend a month-long writing camp. In Thua Thien, there were Nguyen Quang Ha, Nguyen Dac Xuan and I. It took us three days to get there on foot.
Musician Tran Hoan - the person in charge of the camp asked me: "What will Diem write?" I honestly replied: "Maybe I will continue to write some scattered poems", he immediately suggested: "No, this time write something long, write a long poem".
Following his advice, I wrote the epic poem The Road of Aspiration, which had the sound and structure of symphonies that I loved. When I submitted the book and read it, Mr. Hoan liked it very much, especially the part about the Country .
So he completed a famous epic poem in just one month? Were there any revisions to the work afterwards?
- I changed the ending. Originally, the epic poem ended with the song "Autumn Returns to School" , which I wrote in a rather long five-word form, full of emotion. After seasons of fighting, I imagined the scene of students returning to school in the fall full of love and hope. Mr. Tran Hoan said: Let's remove that part, rewrite it, it must be "rushing forward" (laughs).
The Road of Desire was written when I was only 28 years old, so I still had the "recklessness" of youth. Instead of writing in the traditional way, when talking about history, we have to mention Tran Hung Dao, Le Loi, Nguyen Hue, I wrote according to the flow of emotions of folk traditions, people "no one remembers their faces or names", young generations who were present in history. I think that is a new way of searching, suitable for urban youth. Later, Hue intellectual students said that they heard this chapter on Liberation Radio.
Now, at the age of eighty, my thoughts about the country are still the same. The country belongs to the people, not to a dynasty or a king, and that is why we must strive to protect and build the country.
Speaking of the country, there is a work worth mentioning, which is "A poem of a patriot" - composed by poet Tran Vang Sao (real name Nguyen Dinh). This work was once voted as one of the 100 best Vietnamese poems of the 20th century, also composed during this period. Do you still have memories of your close friend at that time?
- That poem was published in 1967, earlier than "Country". I still remember, at that time I came from the plains, Dinh called me aside, Dinh said: "Hey, there's a new poem, do you want to read it?". I immediately picked up the stack of papers and read it right under the darkening light of the forest afternoon. The more I read, the more I saw that Dinh was very talented, very good. Dinh's poetic voice had the sound of Apollinaire, but was rich in the folk songs of his homeland. For many of our brothers and sisters in the southern cities, this tone was not too unfamiliar to them, but to write with such dedication was not easy, and for our brothers and sisters in the North like me, it was a new search.
Nguyen Dinh studied after me but lived in the same village. Whenever there was a good movie, we would go see it together. He was a sincere, spontaneous person, poetic in his own way.
In those days, inspiration about the country and the people almost covered all the works of art. Perhaps that is why works about private matters and love between couples appeared much less?
- Yes. That was the discourse of an entire era, when the struggle to defend the country was taking place fiercely. Writing about love between couples also decreased, or was cautious, reserved, often linking love with duty, avoiding sentimentality.
I am lucky that when I write about love, I try to follow the flow of my emotions. There is sadness, there is happiness, it is my own story.
That's why his works like " Do n't love anyone, baby / Just love me " conquered many generations of readers?
- I wrote that poem for the girl who would later become my wife. I didn't expect it to be so well-liked by many people. In poems about love, I'm quite "daring" (laughs).
Another famous poem of his is "Lullaby for the Children Growing Up on Their Mother's Backs". This work was later composed into the song "Lullaby on the Fields" by musician Tran Hoan. How did he come across "Cu Tai"?
- That is a poem I wrote in 1971, when I followed a film crew to the Western resistance zone of Thua Thien Hue. Cu Tai is a real baby in real life. At that time, seeing a Ta Oi mother carrying her baby on her back while pounding rice, the scene was very touching, I immediately started a conversation: "What is your name?", the mother replied: "Cu Tai". I continued to ask "What is the name of this mountain?". - "Ka Lui". Those heavy sounds echoed in my head, helping me keep the rhythm, writing down that lullaby very quickly. The ethnic people at that time did not have enough food to eat, were very poor and had a hard life. But they had great faith in the revolution. Later, when I had the opportunity to return to Mien Tay, I really wanted to find Cu Tai, but I did not know if he was still alive or dead, what he was doing now. That's why I wrote: " I miss you hanging on my mother's shoulder/ Are you still here, Cu Tai?/ I'll carry you for the rest of my life/ My poems, I'll send to so many people/ Those lullabies fall in the mountains/ I wonder if you've ever heard them?".
A fierce era passed, many changes, many people gradually disappeared. That's why, when looking back on my life, I always consider myself luckier than many others.
In 1996, he became Minister of Culture and Information (now the Ministry of Culture, Sports and Tourism - PV). In 2001, he continued to hold the position of Head of the Central Ideology and Culture Department. Looking back on his time in office, what decisions made him feel satisfied?
- In 1998, the Party Central Committee (VIII Term) at the 5th Central Conference issued a Resolution on "Building and developing an advanced Vietnamese culture imbued with national identity". I participated in preparing the draft Resolution. Until now, I still consider it a landmark resolution of our Party on cultural work, opening up a direction for the development of cultural work in our country at a time when UNESCO emphasizes culture as the driving force of development.
Implementing the Party's Resolution, the Ministry of Culture has selected Hai Hau district (Nam Dinh) and Hoi An ancient town as two models of rural and urban culture standards for localities to study and learn from.
I still remember, when the Ministry chose Hai Hau, someone asked me: "They are Catholics, why did you choose them?". I said: "It's okay, their Catholics are also very good, they still live in a civilized and cultural way". After many years, visiting these two places again, I was happy to see that the people here still retain their own unique cultural and economic characteristics, not being lost, but even more prosperous than before.
After the National Cultural Conference (2021), the Party and State have urgently raised the issue of cultural revival. Recently, the Ministry of Culture, Sports and Tourism has also proposed implementing the National Target Program on cultural revival and development, building Vietnamese people for the period 2025-2035. What do you think about this goal?
- It is true that culture is currently facing many pressing issues. The cultural revival that the Party and the State are setting out is a good and urgent direction, but in the current situation, many good ways of thinking and doing are needed to help us get out of difficulties and truly revive the national culture. It is not necessarily true that pouring a lot of money into culture will revive culture. Because the fundamental problem of culture is people. Therefore, the human factor must permeate cultural activities, only with humanity can there be culture. In our society, inhuman and anti-human factors exist everywhere, making anyone with a heart worried.
Incidents like Viet A or the recent "rescue flights" during the Covid-19 pandemic, when viewed deeply, are also a serious degradation of culture. When have our people, with thousands of years of civilization, ever acted so wrongly? We may not be able to find medicine for the people, but we must have a lot of love and concern for the people. Sometimes when I think about it, I feel very sad.
Another goal is to build a comprehensively developed Vietnamese person in the new era. In your opinion, what are the qualities that young people in our country need to have in modern society?
- Actually, it should be said like this. Young people are children of the times. The times that gave birth to them are the times that they will live and work for.
The era of market economy brings with it countless changes. However, let the young people decide, so that they will be responsible for what they perceive and think, and from there have long-term responsibility to the country. We need to put our trust in the young people, not in anyone else. The important thing is that we must nurture and preserve for them a good ideal like a flame passed from generation to generation, from house to house so that they never cool down. Once they have that flame, they will make history...
While you were in office, many works of art and culture were still banned due to the characteristics of the times. As a poet, have you ever used your voice to defend artists who were in trouble?
- Honestly, I cannot know everything, because the works are in the areas of different publishers and newspapers, under different management and review by each locality and each industry. Everyone is afraid that their management is not strict. Therefore, besides the books and articles that are handled correctly, there are also many books and articles that are handled hastily, causing heavy public opinion. I clearly realize that I am responsible for that.
In management, there is also a bit of joy when you can convince your comrades not to create a big incident when the work has different opinions. For example, the book Endless Field by writer Nguyen Ngoc Tu, although well-reviewed by the Writers' Association, still received reactions from many sides. Fortunately, readers really love Nguyen Ngoc Tu's talent and the management agencies promptly discussed with each other, so the difficulties for the author were resolved.
As a writer, I sympathize with artists' creative desires and even their unusual explorations, because only differences at a high level can bring them joy and happiness. And such explorations are often very touching.
Writers in our country sometimes suffer like that.
Previously, there was also an incident that caused a stir in public opinion when the book "Tuition paid with blood" by writer Nguyen Khac Phuc was criticized and burned by some cadres in the former Hue urban movement. That was the period when you were working in Thua Thien - Hue, how did you handle it?
- The incident happened while I was on a business trip, and only when I returned to my hometown did I receive a report from the City Youth Union. After that, under the direction of the Party Committee, I went to discuss with the director of Da Nang Publishing House to correct and republish this work.
In an article, poet Duong Ky Anh once commented: Nguyen Khoa Diem is a person with opinions but sometimes also entangled with the constraints of his position. Being both a poet with many sensitivities about life and a politician – has this ever caused you conflict and difficulty?
- Politics and poetry are two different categories, although they have the same goal of building society and people. While politicians in the political arena need to maintain a correct principled stance, promoting rationality and law; writers and poets are allowed to live in their emotions, nurturing the source of creativity.
I think society does not accept the foolishness and incompetence of politicians but can sympathize with artists because of their creative habits.
But there is certainly no distinction, political/literary confusion is a common occurrence. It is best to write less poetry when doing politics. And I have done so many times.
Looking back on the path I have traveled, I feel that life has given me many blessings and luck: To be alive to return after the war; to be able to rest peacefully in my hometown after many years of work. I am truly grateful and confident:
"The world is so wide, the roads are generous
Let me renew my life
He calls it an indefinite return trip.
To be one of the people"
Thanks for sharing!
Source
![[Photo] Prime Minister Pham Minh Chinh chairs Government Conference with localities on economic growth](https://vstatic.vietnam.vn/vietnam/resource/IMAGE/2025/2/21/f34583484f2643a2a2b72168a0d64baa)
Comment (0)